Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v09_4/v9_483.txt

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Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #483

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 483

Today's Topics:
          Re: Space Station computer system
          Re: Space Station computer system
            Correction on phone tree alert
             Re: NSS Space Hotline Update
         Re: Venus & the Greenhouse effect..
               Saturn 5 Booster
           Re: Kremlin reveals space budget
                 Missing mail
               Reminders for Old Farts
            Re: Amazon Forest Destruction
          Re: Management of Scientific Data
          Re: Space Station computer system
           Re: Getting news about China from space
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 89 17:00:39 GMT
From: xanth![e-mail]  (Frank C. Paterra)
Subject: Re: Space Station computer system


I don't know if this made it, so sorry if this is a repost.

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick
 Francis Golembiewski) writes:
>
>  > highlights:  they're talking about thirty to forty IBM PS/2 model 80's
>  > pointing devices, with 4 megabytes of RAM and running X-Windows,
>  > networked with Fiber Distributed Data Interface and perhaps IEEE 802
>
>  That's pretty much outdated NOW, I don't see how they can hope to have
>  enough computing power, unless they are going to use the model 80's as
>  terminals... Also the model 80 is a BAD choice even for what is
>  available NOW, even the modle 70 is a lot faster then the 80...  And
>  Why have 30-40 of them?  Are there going to be THAT many people that
>  need them?  I didn't think that the station was supposed to have a
>  crew of 40... EEEK  This sounds really frightening MS-DOS in space,
>  now I KNOW that the space program is in trouble...
>
>
The poop as I know it -

The computer workstations on the space station, known as Multipurpose
Application Consoles or MPACs are based intel 80386 processors
running at 25 mhz.  The basic MPAC will consist of a Standard Data
Processor (SDP) which contains the data buss and a Network Interface
Unit (NIU).  The NIU allows the workstation to use the fiber-optic
based space station LAN.  Each SDP will contain at least one Embedded
Data Processor (EDP) (the 80386 computer).  The EDPs come one meg and
four meg models.  In addition the SDP can contain some number of I/O
driver cards to handle the user I/O.  The I/O devices will include
video (in and out), keyboards, trac-balls, audio (in and out), and
what ever else is needed to support a particular mission.

The Operating system that will be used is a derivative of Unix, and
there will be rack mounted workstations as well as portable ones.  The
portable workstations have to be plugged in to the Data Management
System (DMS) via one of the many ports available in both the lab and
the habitation modules before they can be used.

IBM is developing the workstations and the current mockup models are
PS/2 model 80s, cleverly hidden behind rack mockups.  The real
workstations, however, will not be model 80s.  Currently there are no
plans to use the 80486 or any other processor.

I'm currently working on a commonality study and have researched the
available information so I pretty sure this is correct.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Paterra            The above is my own opinion and nobody
[e-mail]       agrees with or condones what I said.

------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 09 Jun 89 09:45:31 BST
From: [e-mail]
Myname:   Geoff. Lane. (Phone UK-061 275 6051)
Subject:  Re: Space Station computer system


The recent description of the space station presented here sounded an
awful lot like a piece of "Gold Plating".  Why could not an existing
computer available off the shelf be used?  Why is a new version of Unix
required?

------------------------------

Reply-To: mordor!rutgers!pnet01.cts.com![e-mail]
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 89 09:04:04 PDT
From: mordor!rutgers!pnet01.cts.com![e-mail] (Jim Bowery)
To: hplabs!hp-sde!hp-sdd!crash![e-mail]
Subject: Correction on phone tree alert

In a prior phone tree alert to lobby for termination of further funding
for NASA's space station, I inadvertently left the name of a National
Space Society representative at the end of the message.  Obviously,
the National SS does not share my desire to see funding for NASA's
space station terminated and does not endorse, in any way, this phone
tree alert.

Further news on our efforts to terminate funding to NASA's space station
program:  Lobbyists for aerospace establishment companies are beginning
to retrench in preparation for the program's termination.  The latest
issue of "Ad Astra" magazine (the National SS organ) has articles on the
growing difficulties in budgetary fights for NASA's space station program.

It's too bad that Sandra Adamson fought efforts to have the National SS
support the Commercially Developed Space Facility (CDSF) when this option
was presented to her as a key member of the National SS Legislative
Committee in control of National SS phone tree activiations "because it
would threaten space station funding" (quote from 1988 Denver Space
Development Conference).  I guess Sandra, as a beltway consultant working
on the Space Station program, was more concerned about maintaining
funding to herself than timely access to affordable on-orbit facilities
for the nation.

At $600 million fixed price within a few years, as opposed to $30 to $60
billion within a decade for the Space Station, CDSF is STILL an important
option that must be considered seriously.

Maybe the National SS will stop catering to the members of its Board
who received income from Space Station and start acting in the best
interests of a rational space policy once Space Station is cancelled
(but don't hold your breath).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Bowery    Phone: [phone]
PO Box 1981                  Join the Mark Hopkins Society!
La Jolla, CA 92038   (A member of the Mark Hopkins family of organizations.)

UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!jim
ARPA: crash!pnet01![e-mail]
INET: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 89 17:10:42 GMT
From: philmtl!philabs!linus![e-mail]  (Robert Munck)
Subject: Re: NSS Space Hotline Update

>Vice President Dan Quayle, Chairman of the National Space
>Council, reportedly stated...
>...that the US will eventually win control of space ...

ALL of it?

>Quayle reportedly said that the space race is not over, that we
>will "win" due to our superior technology ...

(Quotes in original.)  Those in the upper levels of government really
believe that our technology is superior to everybody else, probably
because they spend a lot of time telling each other how wonderful it
is.  Somehow the almost daily failures of technology don't penetrate
this rosy haze.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 89 16:21:16 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!etive![e-mail]  (Bob Gray)
Subject: Re: Venus & the Greenhouse effect..

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>As I recall, from papers in JBIS and other places, the notion is not quite
>impossible but it is difficult.  Getting rid of all that atmosphere is hard.
>There are other problems in making Venus habitable too, like a grave shortage
>of water and an excessively long rotation period.

One of the JBIS papers (Sorry, I've lost the exact
reference) considered these last two points the easier part
of the problem to solve.

They suggested using a ten megaton nuclear device to alter
the orbit of a particular asteroid to impact on Venus in the
right way to produce suitable length of day.

They also suggested an alternative method using a series of
suitably aimed comets instead. This would add Hydrogen to
the system and eventually create seas for suitable creatures
to live in as they consume the disolved CO2.

They also pointed out that one of the moons of Saturn seems
to be mostly water, and hitting Venus with it would solve
both problems at once.

They considered the major problem to be simply the rate at
which the planet could be cooled. There is a LOT of heat
contained in that atmosphere and top few miles of rock.

They estimated the entire project to take up to take a few
thousand years. So don't buy any real estate there yet.
    Bob.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Jun 89 20:00:07 GMT
From: asuvax!hrc!gtephx![e-mail]  (Robert E. Styma)
Subject: Saturn 5 Booster


I have heard that we no longer have the plans to build a
Saturn 5 booster.  There is one laying on it's side at
the Johnson Space center.  I this just a mock up or could
it be reverse engineered from this model?

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jun 89 14:18:59 GMT
From: rochester![e-mail]  (Paul Dietz)
Subject: Re: Kremlin reveals space budget

Last year, I posted a note about how the USSR's severe economic problems
makes the future of their space program uncertain.  The response on
this newgroup was, not surprisingly, mostly negative.  Panders of
red-scare warnings might want to read this:

Excerpts rom the NY Times, 6/9/89, page A6.  Dateline 8/8/89 Moscow:

"Radical Plan to Balance Soviet Budget"

Warning that the Soviet Union faces economic collapse within the next
few years, a prominent economist proposed an unorthodox plan today for
balancing the budget, including cutting aid to Cuba and Nicaragua, selling
land to farmers and slashing imports of American grain.

The economist, Nikolai P. Shmelyov, addressing a televised session of
the Congress of People Deputies, said his proposals stood little
chance of being approved, but without them the country could plummet
into anarchy or dictatorship.

...

... the government hoped to balance the budget by the mid-1990's
through steep cuts in military spending and industrial subsidies,
along with increased producitivity.

But Mr. Shmelyov said without what he called draconian measures, "we
might well have an economic crash within two or three years."

[ The article continues on, describing his plans for saving $6-8
billion/year by cutting off Cuba and Nicaragua, a plan to give farmers
$75/ton in hard currency for increased grain production rather than
buying American grain for $200/ton, selling farmland (!!) to reduce
the internal deficit, slashing farm subsidies, raising liquor
production to recapture taxes lost to bootleggers, and halting all
large-scale development projects for ten years. ]

------

If Soviet economists think the USSR is this close to the brink, and if
they are seriously proposing stopping all large scale *earth-bound*
development projects for a decade, it is unreasonable to expect them
to do much in space.  So much for the Great Red Hope, space fans.  I'd
not be surprised if they suspend their manned space program for a long
time, perhaps with an increased effort to export launch services.

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 10:18 EDT
From: "Today, All Americans are Chineese." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Missing mail


Just a note to the many people who wrote me in response to my message that I
wasn't receiving SPACE-L messages... I just received the latest 3 digests, and
so it appears that it's working again. Thanks agian.

Damian Hammontree

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 89 04:00:13 PDT
From: Eugene Miya <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reminders for Old Farts

Hints for old users (subtle reminders) You'll know these.

Minimize cross references, [Do you REALLY NEED to?]
Edit "Subject:" lines especially if you are taking a tangent.
Send mail instead, avoid posting follow ups. [100 mail messages mean more
than 1 follow-up.]
Read all available articles before posting a follow-up. [Check all references.]
Cut down attributed articles.  Summarize!
Put a return address in the body (signature) of your message (mail or
article), state institution, etc. don't assume mail works.
Use absolute dates.  Post in a timely way.  Don't post what everyone will
get on TV anyway.
Some editors and window systems do character count line wrapping:
please keep lines under 80 characters for those using ASCII terms (use <CR>).

------------------------------

Date: 7 Jun 89 17:54:34 GMT
From: ginosko!infinet!ulowell!tegra![e-mail]  (Johnathan Vail)
Subject: Re: Amazon Forest Destruction

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Wayne D. T. Johnson) writes:
   >Article in the local news last night:
   >ozone was being destroyed by electrons coming from the magnetosphere
   >this causing 14% of the ozone loss since 1975...

Now I read this as %14 of the loss....  Does that mean that the other
%86 is from fluorocarbons?  Or is this mis-worded?

   I suspected from the beginning that the so-called 'ozone hole' was just
   part of a natural cycle that we would have been seeing all along if we
   had had satellites for decades.  It makes no sense whatsoever that a
   fluorocarbon-induced hole would first appear over the south pole.
It makes no sense until you understand it.  Maybe to someone who does
it makes perfect sense.

I have always suspected that it has something to do with penguins....

"I remember when the sea was full of fish with mysterious names:
Mudrake, Cornsweat, Yasmuda, and there wasn't much to do in a day."
 _____
|     | Johnathan Vail | tegra![e-mail]
|Tegra| [phone] | N1DXG@145.110-,145.270-,444.2+,448.625-
 -----

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jun 89 23:29:59 GMT
From: bionet![e-mail]  (David Kristofferson)
Subject: Re: Management of Scientific Data

You might be interested in looking at the newsgroup
bionet.molbio.bio-matrix.  Your topic of interest is the subject of
this group as it applies to biology.
--
                Sincerely,

                Dave Kristofferson
                BIONET Resource Manager

                [e-mail]
                 or    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jun 89 00:13:41 EDT
From: Colin Hunter <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Space Station computer system

From: J. Colin R. Hunter


In SPACE Digest Volume 9:Issue477, xanth![e-mail] (Frank C.
Paterra) writes:

> The computer workstations on the space station, known as Multipurpose
> Application Consoles or MPACs are based intel 80386 processors
> running at 25 mhz.  The basic MPAC will consist of a Standard Data
                ^^^

25 _milli_ hertz!!!
I always thought that IBMs were slow, but I never realised that they were
*that* slow.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1989 16:41-EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Getting news about China from space

> accident when it first broke.  I doubt that such a satellite could detect
> individual tanks but perhaps it could detect masses of them.  Maybe it could
> detect them deployed by bridges, intersections and the like.  Any comments?

This is why we need a mediasat (preferably non-american to put it
outside of the control of the DOD). Then we could let the whole world
see what is happening when a government turns on its own people like
the Chinese government has done.

We used to chant "The whole world's watching...." here when the police
beat people up in the streets during the anti-Vietnam years.* It's time
we had a satellite system to make it a true statement for all
inhabitants of planet Earth. Let no government hide it's violent nature
from world opinion.


* Incidentally, they still do on occasion. A Pittsburgh Pig was filmed
slugging a handcuffed kid in the face at a Grateful Dead concert here a
few months ago.  The pig got off without even a reprimand.
Nonetheless, the camera does hold them back from real excesses.
Usually.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #483
*******************